Artivist Series - Lisa Scali
seaweed culinary arts
Lisa Scali considers herself a foodie and a lover of the ocean. She is more than a co-owner of Ocean’s Balance and a chef, she is a proponent of eating more sustainably by consuming seaweed. Lisa who has lived in Paris and New York, two of the world’s best-known cities for foodies, now lives in Portland, Maine where she leads a culinary trend to encourage Americans to eat more seaweed, a plant that is farmed and harvested from the ocean.
Video conversation with Lisa…click here
What Lisa talks about…
She grew up in New York in an Italian family. She grew up in the kitchen with her grandmothers’ cooking. Lisa describes herself as a foodie. She’s worked in Paris and NYC but moved to Maine when she had had enough of city noise and concrete. Her future husband introduced her to Portland, Maine and she realized how truly important the food scene is to the town. A family friend started Ocean’s Balance and invited Lisa to handle sales and marketing. Lisa explains how seaweed is grown. First in a lab and later in the ocean. Seaweed is “seeded” onto PVC pipe covered with string in a lab and “planted” in the ocean when the string is wound on to marine line. When the line is hauled in 6 months later, the seaweed is 15 ft. long. Lisa points out that we eat plenty of seaweed without realizing it and it’s Ocean Balance’s job to create products that use seaweed that make it easy for people to consume more of it as it is healthy and a sustainable product.
Lisa says that seaweed’s “calling card” is the flavor known as umami. It’s the fifth flavor after salty, sweet, bitter, and sour. Umami is the Japanese word for “delicious savory taste.” Each type of seaweed has its own unique flavor. For example, the red seaweed dulce has a distinct smoky flavor reminiscent of meat. Lisa says dulce is a great option for those who are looking to eat less meat. Dulce makes a good bacon substitute.
Lisa says 95 percent of seaweed consumed in America is imported from Asia. This seaweed represents a big carbon footprint. Because seaweed is a sustainable protect grown without the need for fertilizer, arable land or fresh water. So why not grow it locally? Maine is the largest producer of seaweed in the country. It plays an important role in our coastal community’s economy. It helps the communities diversify their economy.
Lisa provides a recipe for salsa. She challenges listeners to try and include more seaweed in their diet. “You’ll be doing your bod a favor, supporting Maine and caring for the ocean.”
Recipe: Fresh salsa with kelp
Makes about 5 cups, 30 minutes preparation time
2 cups finely diced tomatoes
1 cup each finely diced red and green pepper
2 finely diced jalapeño peppers
1 large red onion, finely diced
3 Tbsp. minced garlic
1 bunch cilantro, finely chopped
3 Tbsp. Ocean’s Balance Kelp Purée
3-5 Tbsp. freshly squeezed lime juice
Salt
Directions
Combine all ingredients in a large mixing bowl. Adjust seasonings to taste. Serve immediately with large nacho chips for dipping.
This salsa is also great as a topping for burritos, huevos rancheros, or quesadillas.
Show Notes
00:00:01 Pam Ferris-Olson Today on the Wo(men) Mind the Water Artivist Series of women mindthewater.com, I am speaking with Lisa Scali, who says she loves food and the ocean. Lisa is much more than a chef and is the first to be featured on our podcast. Lisa has lived in Paris and New York, two of the world's best known cities for foodies, and is co-owner of Ocean's Balance. Lisa is leading a culinary trend to encourage Americans to eat more seaweed. Seaweed is a plant that is farmed and harvested from the ocean.
The Wo(men) Mind the Water Artivist Series podcast and womenmindthewater.com engages artists in conversation about their work and explores their connection with the ocean. Through their stories, Wo(men) Mind the Water hopes to inspire and encourage action to protect the ocean and her creatures.
00:00:53 Pam Ferris-Olson Today I am speaking with Lisa Scali, a woman who is using her advanced degrees in Economics and International Affairs and her professional experience working with large companies to help grow a new industry – that of everyday healthy food items made from seaweed. It’s a job that combines Lisa’s two passions – food and the ocean. Lisa is co-owner of Ocean’s Balance, a line of pantry items ranging from seaweed flakes to marinara sauces. All are made from seaweed farmed and harvested from the Gulf of Maine. Lisa believes that seaweed products are healthy for our bodies, produced in a way that is healthy for our planet and for the economies of Maine’s coastal communities.
00:01:42 Pam Ferris-Olson Lisa, I am looking forward to our conversation. I'm interested to learn more about how one goes about developing the palettes of American diners and sense that your work is much more than modifying recipes. Let's dig in. Shall we? Tell us a little bit about your background? Where did you grow up? And as a child, were you an adventurous eater?
00:02:04 Lisa Scali So I grew up in an Italian family. My mother was first generation and my father was second. I grew up in the kitchen next to my grandmother's cooking, and if I had to describe myself in one word, I would say that I'm a foodie. It's really in my family. It was the glue that still binds us together. And it is the basis of so many conversations. No sooner have we put a meal on the table, than we are talking about the next meal. We are a bit food obsessed, I would say. But as I was growing up, we were given, you know, delicious Italian food and we were expected to eat it. There wasn't a lot of, “Oh, I'll make you something different.” We were given what was made and we were told to eat it. And I think because of that, I developed a very multifaceted palate where I really did enjoy eating lots of different kinds of foods. And then when I moved to France, I was lucky enough to live there for almost eight years in total. My palette was introduced to a whole new range of flavors and spices and food. It really broadened and deepened my love of food. So yes, a foodie. I grew up in New York State.
00:03:19 Pam Ferris-Olson For somebody who defines himself as a foodie, how is it that you went into economics? What did you imagine yourself doing with the degree?
00:03:29 Lisa Scali I think we owe my economics degree, which is in addition to a French degree. I have a double major undergraduate in English and French. Excuse me, economics in French, the economics was due to my father. The ever practical electrical engineer. Who did not think that studying French, which is what I really wanted to do, was going to lead to meaningful employment. So he insisted that I add something on there. So I thought about accounting and finance and they just seemed very dry. So I chose the very juicy topic of economics. But he was right. I needed to be balanced in my education, and so I continued my economic studies focusing on international economic policy. When I did my graduate work Columbia. I was immediately hired by a bank upon graduation and within six months I was in Paris. And when I started college, that really was my goal. To get a job working in a French speaking country. So my dad was right. And I owe him. Thanks for that.
00:04:33 Pam Ferris-Olson Well, good for both of you and the fact that you landed in two iconic cities, New York and Paris. It's kind of amazing to me that you ended up in Portland, ME, which seems to be a million miles away from those places. Why did you decide to move to a city with the tradition of being more of a working waterfront than a bustling metropolis?
00:05:02 Lisa Scali Well, in a word, it would be you know, I love living in Paris. Don't get me wrong, it's a beautiful city but the Seine was just not doing it for me in terms of proximity to the water. I felt very landlocked in Paris. I really did. I spent many weekends out in Brittany and Normandy to eat the oysters, of course, but also just to be closer to the water, to be able to breathe the air and hear the water was important for me. When I moved back to New York after my time in Paris. Yes, I was in New York. And yes, I could see the Hudson River and the New York Bay from my office. But I think by then I had had enough. Like I had had enough of noise and concrete and the Hudson wasn't enough. And when I met my now husband, who was already living in Portland, it only took a couple of visits for me to realize that this is where I wanted to be. He was smart, so he took me to like the most beautiful places in Maine like Kettle Cove. These gorgeous, iconic places, and I realized this is this is exactly where I needed to be. It was an easy decision to move to Maine.
00:06:02 Lisa Scali And once I got there it was then that I truly came to understand just how vibrant the food scene is in Maine, especially in Portland where I live. So many restaurants with James Beard Award nominations and prizes each year. I was attracted to it and so were my family and friends. The founder of Ocean’s Balance founded the company, and while the ink was still drying on the formation papers, he called me and he said, “So what do you think? Would you like to do sales and marketing for a seaweed company?” I was like, yeah, this is exactly what I want to do, and I haven't looked back.
00:06:40 Pam Ferris-Olson So before we get into a discussion about eating seaweed, it might be helpful if you explain how seaweed is grown and harvested.
00:06:49 Lisa Scali Cultivating seaweed is a fascinating process. It starts in a lab, basically, or a giant fish tank. You have pieces of PVC pipe that have string wrapped around them. And traditionally what it's done is you release some spores of seaweed into the water. And those spores attach to the string. This fish tank has recirculating, bubbling water through it. And for the first couple of weeks you basically just see bubbles. It doesn't look like much is happening.
But then like after 2-3, maybe four weeks, you start to notice that there's like a brown moss kind of thing appearing on the string. A few weeks later, it's covered in what looks like moss, and at that point it's time to plant the seaweed. So you take these pipes and you go out onto the water and wrap the string around the line. The nautical line is attached to buoys. You let that line sink into the water. Six months later, you will pull up on the line and it is carrying 15 foot blades of seaweed. It's an incredible process.
00:08:05 Pam Ferris-Olson I think listeners who have eaten seaweed may be aware that the green wrappers used in some sushi are made from seaweed. What other ways do Americans commonly eat seaweed and maybe aren't aware about it?
00:08:18 Lisa Scali Maybe fewer people know that the carrageenan that can be extracted from seaweed naturally is put into products like ice cream and toothpaste because of its thickening properties. So many people have been eating seaweed for a long time, but they just don't realize it.
00:08:38 Lisa Scali What we're trying to do at Ocean’s Balance is create products that contain seaweed, but that are kind of easy entryways into trying it. Seaweed, if it's for the first time, you know, we have dried organic seaweeds. But we also have value-added items like pasta sauces and seasonings. And the thought process there use a food that people are comfortable with and already include very frequently in their eating and add some seaweed to it so that the whole idea of eating seaweed doesn't become the big effort or this big leap. They're just including it in something that they've already eaten anyway.
00:09:20 Pam Ferris-Olson So what does seaweed taste?
00:09:23 Lisa Scali So seaweed, it's calling card is umami. Umami is the 5th taste after salty, sweet, bitter and sour. It's a Japanese word that has become very trendy and its translation literally means delicious savory taste. So it has a lot of natural goodness which enhances the flavor of the food that it's cooked with but then each kind of seaweed has its own flavor. Some of the more popular strains that we work with dulse comes to mind immediately. So dulse is this beautiful red seaweed that grows on rocks. It needs lots of air and light in order to grow.
And it has a very distinct smoky, almost nutty flavor. And it's the one dried seaweed that I'll just eat out of the bag for snack. It's so good. But it's also a great choice for vegan diets because of that smoky meaty flavor. It's also used anywhere that bacon would be used. For example, you could fry it up with a little bit of oil and add it to a sandwich with lettuce and tomato and just have this delicious DLT really good. Kombu is another one that's pretty popular. That's the one I mentioned earlier. It's the base for making broths and it can also be used as a salt substitute and then Wakame. Another popular seaweed, often used to make seaweed salads, and that one has more of a floral flavor. It mixes well with other types of lettuces and things.
00:11:05 Pam Ferris-Olson OK, So what are you working on right now?
00:11:09 Lisa Scali You know, I talked a lot about how seaweed is really good for you and how we should be eating it. It's obvious to me, right? But when we think about how people are eating seaweed and where they're getting it from, that's where there's work to be done. 95% of the seaweed that Americans consume is actually imported from Asia. And that represents a pretty big carbon footprint. So it makes sense when we're working with a food that is so sustainable. As I mentioned earlier, when you farm seaweeds, you don't use arable land. You don't use fresh water. You're not using fertilizer. It’s incredibly sustainable. But if you're buying it from a really faraway place, you're kind of defeating the purpose of eating that sustainable food. So the education that we try to impart and the knowledge that we try to share with people is a big part of what we do. And it's not just Ocean’s Balance, it's everyone in the domestic seaweed world and in Maine. It's a big part of the state’s economy. Maine is actually the largest producer of seaweed in the country and it plays an important role with our coastal communities.
00:12:30 Lisa Scali Everyone knows that the water is badly warming up and fish are starting to swim north. Our coastal communities, who have for decades if not centuries, lived their lives on the water fishing are now turning to seaweed farming as a means of diversifying their income away from being solely reliant on fish. It makes perfect sense because they already have the equipment. They know the water and it allows them to keep doing what they love. That's important too, that we maintain that way of life that is so important to this iconic state.
And then in terms of the kitchen. What are we doing in the kitchen? And that's I guess is the product development. What kinds of products are we putting out there? It goes back to what I said before, we're trying to make seaweed as accessible as possible by putting it into products that people are already comfortable with and like to eat. With the products that we're putting out,
I'm working on right now some recipes. Recipes are good because they just help show people how to cook with seaweed. I've been working on some crudo recipes. I'm trying to use seaweed that is being sustainably farmed in Maine. And, you know, nice fresh ingredients. And topping them with the seasonings. Crudo is great. You know as we come into summer, they're popular just for summer. That's something we'll be focusing on a lot in the next couple of months.
00:14:08 Pam Ferris-Olson So where do people find Ocean’s Balance in their supermarket?
00:14:13 Lisa Scali Well, thank you for asking. So we're in about 1500 stores across the country. I'd say right now we're kind of coastal, but we're also starting to make headway in the middle of the country. And we're actually doing a fair amount in Texas. But some of the chains that people might know are Whole Foods, Hannaford, Rayley’s in Northern California, Erewhon, Lassens, and Lazy Acres in Southern California. Central Market in Texas, Moms Organics and, like I mentioned earlier, we've got a whole bunch of new stores that are coming onboard. And if none of those stores are in your area, we also have a website. We also sell on Amazon. So lots of options for buying Ocean’s Balance.
00:15:02 Pam Ferris-Olson We'll put your website on our own website and maybe you'd want to provide us with a recipe for people to try as well. So I generally ask my guests at the end of a podcast to issue a call to action. I wonder if you'd offer a challenge to listeners how they can promote a more sustainable ocean through their own habits.
00:15:29 Lisa Scali Yeah, that's a great question. And I would ask people to try and include seaweed in their diet. Again, it doesn't mean that you're eating seaweed straight now. There's lots of different ways to eat seaweed and Ocean’s Balance, along with lots of other seaweed brands out there, have made lots of different kinds of products that are, you know, straight organic seaweed to pasta sauce. But lots of things in between. And so it’s easy to find something that works for you and your family. And I think you'll be pleasantly surprised to realize that it's not that hard to include it in your diet. You'll be doing your bodies a favor because as we said, it's just incredibly nutritious. You'll be helping support many causes. The state of Maine which is always a good thing and you'll be helping to contribute to the care of the ocean.
You know I don't want people to think that seaweed farming is the sole savior of the ocean. There's a lot of other things that need to happen but by choosing to eat foods that are sustainable, like seaweed, you are going to do your part to help fix this food model that we do need to fix in order for our oceans to continue and for us to be able to eat.
00:16:49 Pam Ferris-Olson I expect listeners have gained a new appreciation for seaweed and will be inspired to get into their own kitchens and whip something up that's delicious and includes seaweed.
I'd like to remind listeners that I have been speaking with Lisa Scali, a co-owner of Ocean’s Balance, a company dedicated to supporting sustainable oceans through eating seaweed. Lisa Scali is the latest guest on the Wo(men) Mind the Water Artivist Series podcast. The series can be viewed on womenmindthewater.com, Museum on Main Street, and YouTube. An audio-only version of this podcast is available on womenunderwater.com, on iTunes and Spotify. Wo(men) Mind the Water is grateful to Jaine Rice for the use of her song Women of Water. All rights for the Wo(men) Mind the Water name and logo belong to Pam Ferris-Olson. This is Pam Ferris-Olson.