Artivist Series - Pam Chevez and Juliette Sutherland
Film makers, Behind the Waves
Pam Chevez and Juliette Sutherland produced the film Behind the Waves, a documentary about female surfers in Maine. Pam and Juliette met on the water in Maine and decided to combine their creative talents to document the surfing experience through the lens of women. Along the way they built a community of women who love to surf. It is a community that is friendly, supportive, and accessible to women and people of color.
Video Conversation with Pam and Juliette…click here
What Pam and Juliette talk about…
Pam and Juliette discuss their experiences surfing in Maine and the motivation and challenges of making their film Behind the Waves. Surfing in Maine is a winter sport because of the availability of surfable waves. In the winter the waves may reach 7 feet but they aren’t consistently available, so the surfers and the film makers had to drop what they were doing when there were waves. Another challenge was that the two women approached the film making from different experiences. Pam is a designer and animator and Juliette is an artist and filmmaker. They went through a period of experimentation before they got into the actual film making.
“The film captures what a lot of surfers feel which is that inherent connection to the ocean. When you are riding on your surfboard flying down the face of a wave you are one with the ocean…The act of it is a connecting force.” Juliette Sutherland
“It’s why the ocean is so important- it’s healing, it’s a space where you can be happy.” Pam Chevez
Juliette observes that “We’re not really separate from the ocean.” This is the reason people are concerned for the ocean, because “you take care of the place that you love.”
A trailer of Behind the Waves is included in the video podcast.
Show Notes
Pam Ferris-Olson (00:01):There we go. Can you hear me now?
Juliette Sutherland (00:05): Yeah.
Pam Ferris-Olson (00:06): Yeah, what a funny start. It said you were there waiting, I admitted you to the room and then I saw the door close and there's nobody there.
Juliette Sutherland (00:17): Oh, we went to the bathroom, sorry.
Pam Ferris-Olson (00:19): Today on the Women Mind the Water podcast, I'm speaking with Pam Chevez and Juliette Sutherland. They produced a film, Behind The Waves, a documentary about female surfers in Maine. Pam is a designer and animator, while Juliette is an artist and filmmaker. The Women Mind the Water podcast engages artists in conversations about their work and explores their connection with the ocean. Through these stories, Women Mind the Water hopes to inspire and encourage action to protect the ocean and her creatures. I am delighted today to welcome two guests. Pam Chevez is a multidisciplinary designer born and raised in Mexico City, where she got her BFA in graphic design. Juliette Sutherland is a filmmaker who specializes in promotional videos and documentaries.
Pam Ferris-Olson (01:11): She also serves as the Maine State chair for Women In Film and Video New England. Pam and Juliette met on the water in Maine and decided to combine their creative talents to document the surfing experience through the lens of women. Along the way they built a community of women who love to surf. It is a community that is accessible to women and people of color. Well, thank you for joining me on the Women Mind the Water podcast. I'm really looking forward to hearing more about your film Behind The Waves, surfing in Maine in general, and particularly the women who do it. Let me start by asking how each of you became interested in surfing and please, for those who are listening to an audio only version of this podcast, identify yourself when you are speaking.
Pam Chevez (02:02): I'll go first. Okay. Well, Pam here. I got into surfing... When I was a kid, I used to go to Hawaiian dancing lessons and that kind of opened my mind to this idea of surfing and I was curious about it. Never really did it because I was in Mexico city and there's really no ocean, or there's not really the opportunity to do it over there. So when I finally moved to Maine, I was unemployed. I was waiting for my papers to get in order so I could do my life. So while I was walking in the beach one day I saw the surfers and I was like, "Oh, you can actually serve in Maine. I probably should give it a shot." So I went to, who was Aquaholics. They had like a morning class for women only. It was free. And at the time that was perfect for me.
Pam Chevez (03:09): So I just when in that class and surfed and then I got hooked up and I couldn't leave it aside. So I'll find a way to like borrow gear for a while from Black Point Surf Shop by exchanging like some art for some gear. And they were really supportive of it. And they basically kept me in the water. So I'm pretty grateful for them, keep doing it, it's probably like mental health activity. Like, that [inaudible 00:03:43] saying and stuff like that.
Pam Ferris-Olson (03:45): What about you, Juliette?
Juliette Sutherland (03:47): Yeah, I also did it a few times when I was in high school, but I lived in London, Massachusetts. And so, it just didn't make sense to surf, you have to live by the water. So when I moved to Maine, I took a class through Maine Surfers Union, the Ladies Slide Night. So it's a women's class for surfing [inaudible 00:04:10]. And I did it through my friend Shannon Brian's group that mean, he was like organizing all this outfit stuff. So it was just really exciting to have a class just with women. Like you could mess up and it didn't matter. And it just felt so much safer to learn in that environment. And I was immediately pumped and I was renting boards from Black Point and going whenever there were waves. And then I finally bought a board.
Pam Ferris-Olson (04:36): So Pam kind of touched on it. When I think of surfing, I think of Hawaii or Southern California. Is there a difference in the actual surfing or in the surfing culture between these iconic surfing spots and Maine?
Pam Chevez (04:50): Definitely. I'm not going to say I'm an expert or really aware of how the culture is in California or Hawaii. I've been surfing there, but not as much as other surfers that we know, but what we've heard from them and my little experience over on that side is I think Maine is some little bit more friendly in a way that's... You go out, you paddle out and you still find people that try to help you through the process. And they're more friendly, telling you like, "Oh, I think you're a little bit upfront on your board, you might want to go a little bit back", versus California and Hawaii can be like really competitive. And there's this aggression like, "That wave that's coming is mine and I'm just going to get it", you know? And you got to earn it.
Pam Ferris-Olson (05:43): How big are the ways that you surf on in Maine?
Pam Chevez (05:46): Oh, they're babies.
Juliette Sutherland (05:48): Well, I mean it depends. So in the summer, yeah, they're tiny and you pretty much just want a long board, but in the winter, I mean, you can get like seven foot waves. I think that is a big difference though, is the waves in Maine are much less consistent. So often, like I've heard other surfers say like, surfers here just aren't as good as other places because you can't go every day. You know, it's like you might surf a couple of days in a row and then you don't get any swell for weeks.
Juliette Sutherland (06:14): The other thing I wanted to say is I just feel like the surf culture in Maine isn't as entrenched as California and Hawaii, which to us feels like an amazing opportunity where we can sort of nip in the bud that like really competitive, awful culture, which I don't think anyone really enjoys and create the kind of culture that we want to see, which is inclusive and accepting and not... There's a lot of like localism that happens, and I think this kind of territorialism, I understand why it's there, but I feel like there are better ways that it can be there and we can all sort of help and support each other as to being exclusive and competitive.
Pam Ferris-Olson (06:54): So what was the main motivation for Behind The Waves? Was it a how to, or was there something else that you were trying to say?
Juliette Sutherland (07:08): It was your idea.
Pam Chevez (07:08): It's funny. It really came out... It evolved. This movie just evolved from a small project we had in mind, the project idea came up one day, we went out for a drink and I had in mind doing portraits, like video portraits of women who surf in Maine to put them out there and see how awesome they are, how badass and to create this kind of digital community, so people could see who is out there, right? And eventually we're trying to do that, we realized probably that's not what we wanted to do, that we actually wanted to show the actual community surfing out there together.
Pam Ferris-Olson (07:48): Okay. So certainly there've been many surfing films made. How do you think your film is different?
Juliette Sutherland (07:55): Yeah, so I think for me, it's not just about hearing from women, but also how would a woman present it? And for me, my filmmaking style is I think maybe classically feminine in a certain way? Because I was born as a female, but I think there are certain traits that are characterized as feminine, which I think with general culture, you know, we don't see a lot of representation of that. So I really wanted to convey the sort of softness and spirituality and connection that happens when surfers are in the water. And I think that's something that every surfer has talked about, it's just that feeling of connecting to something larger than yourself and being really humbled in the presence of the ocean.
Pam Ferris-Olson (08:38): So describe the process in making Behind The Waves. Did you encounter any challenges?
Pam Chevez (08:47): We were just talking about that before joining this.
Juliette Sutherland (08:54): I think both of our styles, well, I mean, one thing we did have in common is we like to experiment. So it was like, "Okay, let's make this film" and then, "Okay, how are we going to do it?" And we did all of this experimentation, but then at a certain point it was almost like too much experimentation. And it was like, "Okay, now we got to like actually make something." So there was a lot of like winding, it wasn't a linear process at all.
Pam Chevez (09:19): Yeah. It was definitely experimental. And I would say the challenges were first, we didn't knew that many women surfing. So that was the first challenge, and we've had to solve it, by creating a meetup. Then our second challenge we had was definitely styles, work styles, like Juliette is an artist, she's more crafting something, an artist and a videographer, I'm more of a animator who also has an artist side, but I've been working with studios and big companies for longer.
Pam Chevez (09:52): So my way of working were at some point, start clashing, you were like, "Why are we doing this?", I need to do this like that, and I need more structure and being able to like, we should experiment more. And I was like, no, I am done. You know? So like, the communication process and trying to figure out how to meet in the middle. I think that was a real challenge. And also waiting for the waves to happen and be able to go out whenever the waves were out there or whenever people were surfing out there, because you have to adapt your schedule to theirs a little bit. And also you have your full-time job, so having your full time job, and also being like, oh...
Juliette Sutherland (10:35): We got to drop everything and go surfing.
Pam Chevez (10:36): Drop everything, because the girls are out there and we need to film them. So it was, I think those were big challenges.
Pam Ferris-Olson (10:43): You wrote that the film helped build a community of women surfers. What do you mean by community? And what role did the film play in building this community?
Juliette Sutherland (10:54): That's actually really interesting because I recently was talking with some artist friends about, what does this term community mean? And I feel like it's thrown around a lot kind of haphazardly. And I think we're often part of communities, whether we realize it or acknowledge it at all. I feel like the first example is your neighborhood. That's a community, you live in a community, whether you decide to engage with it or not, you're still a part of that community. And one thing I felt like we learned with this project was, both Pam and I knew a couple of women who surfed, but then they knew other women and they knew other women. And so, because we needed to make this film or wanted to make this film, we needed to find those women and bring them together. And so we were kind of reaching out and there was so much enthusiasm.
Juliette Sutherland (11:38): I think that's what shocked me was how people got really excited about this. All these women who wanted to get together and meet other women who surfed. And then we realized there are actually way more women surfing than we would've imagined. And so I felt like the community was already there. It just hadn't realized itself yet. And we were just the spider web kind of connecting people. Yeah. And then now, you paddle out and you see all these familiar faces and it's so nice to just not be the only woman in the water, but paddle out and be like, "Oh, I recognize her." You know?
Pam Chevez (12:12): And you just feel safer, it's like any community, I feel like. I think something we were talking about, Juliette and I, at some point of, for me, community, I grew up with that concept.
Pam Chevez (12:24): In Mexico City, we have this big [inaudible 00:12:27] community. That's how we live. It's not just about families, I got your back, you got my back, I know you're there. So for me creating this community was not about like, "Let's hang out and get together and get drinks." It was more about like, I know that they're there, and I know I can reach out to you if I need help for something. Maybe I don't know how to wax my board, for example, a couple of girls were like, "I don't know how to wax my board, I feel intimidated by it." Okay, so you can reach out. Because like there you have a community and you might not be best friends or something, but it's your community, it's there and you can count on them. You can rely on them. So it's pretty much about that, I think.
Pam Ferris-Olson (13:11): So is there a difference between a surfing community of women and that of men?
Juliette Sutherland (13:20): Well, I mean, I think the dominant surf culture is male, right? So we don't even really know what a female led surf culture would be. And especially because I think, masculine traits are just what are prioritized and admired in our culture, like perfectionism and like being the best and being the baddest, the hardest, the fastest, the strongest, as opposed to like, I'm not trying to be super radical. I'm just trying to have fun and enjoy. And we can be a little more chill and supportive and it's not about me, myself and I getting that wave. It's about, "Hey, there's a whole group of us and we want to be together. So we're going to share."
Pam Ferris-Olson (14:00): Having watched the 2011 documentary Whitewash, I am somewhat aware of how race has, at least in the past, created barriers for black surfers. Why did race become a conscious element in building your community of female surfers?
Pam Chevez (14:20): I think it became important because I feel like in general, because of race and because of color, there has been repression happening. Not only when surfing, but in general, like in society. And I feel like people of color, immigrants, have a little bit less, way less access to the ocean, for example, right? Because probably you can't afford to live nearby the ocean. Probably you don't own a car to ride to the ocean. So I feel like just the same, how race, your race, it affects you in just living in your regular life, it also affects you in the surfing culture. That's what we're trying to do at some point as well. We're trying to make it accessible for that people that feels intimidated or has never really tried it. Because they've never had the opportunity to even swim, you know? Some people don't even know how to swim. So we're trying to open it up a little bit more, trying to prove that, I don't know, that possibility of surfing is for everyone.
Pam Ferris-Olson (15:34): So how might your film encourage viewers to be interested in the ocean?
Juliette Sutherland (15:39): I think the film captures what a lot of surfers feel, which is just that inherent connection to the ocean. Like when you're riding your surfboard, gliding down the face of a wave, like you are one with that ocean, like all of these elements come together and it's like the wave is moving through you. And I think just the act of it is a connecting force and I hope that the film captures that and conveys that and could inspire other people to feel that way.
Pam Chevez (16:12): I feel like a lot of the film, and a lot of what the girls had to say was, the ocean is there for me, the ocean is this majestic part of nature that will keep me on track, that will keep me aware of things that will keep me humble. It's something that also helps me connect with myself.
Pam Chevez (16:35): So I think it's important to like... If we focus on that, the film makes us understand that in the end, we are forgetting that nature, that's where we belong and we are part of it. And if we don't have it, there's no way to feel okay with ourselves and be in touch with ourselves. So that's why the ocean is so important. It's healing, it's a space where you feel happy and it's a place that also is like 70 percent of our planet, you know? And I think that's pretty much it, it's out there. It's how we put it.
Pam Ferris-Olson (17:20): So how can you encourage others to take action, to protect the ocean and her creatures?
Juliette Sutherland (17:28): Just echoing what Pam was saying earlier about how we're not really separate from the ocean, that sort of this artificial divide that was created. And so you take care of the places that you live and you love. And I think surfing just inspires love for the ocean. And once you love something, you care for it.
Pam Chevez (17:47): I also go right back to everyone should just take care of it, because just think of it, Maine, it's a great place for seafood, right? If you don't take care of it, your seafood is going to be gone, about to be gone in a couple of years. The oceans are warming up and if we don't take care of them, all the things that we know right now are going to disappear.
Pam Ferris-Olson (18:11): Well, Pam and Juliette, it's been great to talk to you and learning about surfing and the women who surf in Maine. All right, ladies, I'd like to remind our listeners that I've been speaking with Pam Chevez and Juliette Sutherland for the Women Mind the Water podcast series, the series can be viewed on womenmindthewater.com . An audio only version of this podcast is available on the Women Mind the Water website, on iTunes and Spotify. Women Mind the Water is grateful to Jaine Rice for the song, Women of Water. All rights for the Women Mind the Water name and logo belong to Pam Ferris-Olson. This is Pam Ferris-Olson. Thank you for listening.